What is with AP?

[Alan French]

The problem is quite simple - AP can't keep up with the demand for their products, and feels that increasing production must not come at the expense of their quality and reputation. They have recently expanded their operation, essentially doubling the size of their facility. Roland has recently mentioned that mounts are getting close to being "off the shelf" products.

The final figuring and testing of a lens requires skilled hands, as does proper alignment in its cell. Skilled opticians are not cheap, nor easy to find, so Roland still does all this work himself. Contrary to a claim here that he doesn't want help for fear of "secrets" getting out, I'd think he'd welcome a qualified apprentice.

Yes, it requires quite a wait to get a telescope from AP, and we live in an impatient "I need it now!" world. There are, however, plenty of alternatives these days. Tak, TV, TEC, and TMB all come to mind, as well as a host of companies offering smaller APOs. You may find a wait for some of the scopes these companies offer too.

In a day when so much comes for overseas, I am glad to see a company like AP, making essentially everything right here. They do have to get their glass overseas - no one makes it here anymore - but virutally everything else is done right in Rockford, Illinois. You should hope for many more companies like AP.

As an added note, you can get a tour of AP on John Ratzenberger's show "Made in America" on the Travel Channel this spring.

Clear skies, Alan

[Rick Keppler]

In addition to the fine comments by Mr. French, I can honestly say that I have never really had to wait for any AP telescope that I have wanted other than the 10" Mak-Cass. I am still waiting for it. To be perfectly honest, I haven't made an outstanding effort to find one either. I have owned various of the AP refractors, all of which I have purchased second hand. As to mounts, they are getting very close to off the shelf items.
AP makes extremely high quality pieces. The telesope optics are individually tested, figured and mounted by Roland himself. It is what makes an AP telescope an AP telescope and what places the demand far above what Roland can produce. I myself am more than happy it stays just the way it is with low volumes of extremely fine optics instead of high volumes of poor to mediocre telescopes.

[pizwiz]

Whoa !!!!!
No one is talking about producing mediocre Telescopes.
Part of the frustration is that EVERYONE wants to have an American company in this business, and the one we have gives the impression ( rightly or wrongly) of not giving a hoot about it's customers.
It is the "take it or leave it" attitude conveyed by the AP web site that has most of us looking elsewhere.
Because frankly, if I get that feeling before I make my purchase, the first thought in my mind is : How am I going to be treated once I have paid my hard-earned cash ??
Maybe it would help if the owner showed some kind of concern for his customers.
The point is, Roland may be the most friendly, compassionate person in the world, but it sure doesn't show.

Adolph

[Rick Keppler]

Hmm, not the experience I have had with AP. I have spoken with both Marj and Roland several times, as well as anumber of the staff at AP. Never have I been put off by anything they have said. In fact, just the opposite. They are invariably helpful and pleasant. I think that most people do not understand that they actually have to wait for some items. I know it is tough to believe that a button can't be pressed and an AP1200 mount or an AP160 refractor pops out of a slot ready for delivery. The mechanics of the mounts and OTA's require fine machining with tight tolerances. This takes time, costs a lot of money to do with complex equipment and requires competent people to do the work, assemble and test. Growth and expansion does not happen overnight. AP has grown slowly over the years with products in such high demand that they cannot deliver major products off the shelf. Mounts are almost there. Optics NEVER will be as long as Roland is the only person making them. Roland created a significant market for APO refractors and is now to be chided because he cannot keep up with the demand? This is absurd.
Roland has stated many times that there are other manufacturers who create exemplary work that one can turn to if one is not able to sit back and wait. In fact, he has always stated that a person should never wait, there are in most cases, abundant new options available - and for some strange reason, they all seem to start with the letter "T". There are a lot of second hand optics that come up for sale as well.

[Paul G]

On AP:

I've dealt with them many times and they have always been polite, friendly, and helpful. Their after-sale service is exceptional. Roland has said many times that he prefers to do the final figuring on each lens and it sets a finite limit on his scope production capacity. That's not arrogant, that's a master optician giving the optics his personal touch. It's why his scopes, new and used, are in such demand. Business 101 would say to increase the price until the interest list vanishes, but Roland has stated he wants to keep his scopes affordable to as many amateurs as possible, so the interest list lives on. A class act.

As a scope buyer you can either get on the list to get one of the finest scopes in the world, or if you can't or don't want to wait you can pay more for a used AP scope or buy one of a number of high quality refractors available with little or no wait. Your choice.

On Company 7:

They're not for everyone, nor is their sense of humor. Their primary business is custom optics for the defense department, NASA, etc., and they sell amateur equipment because it is their passion. No sales pressure and they are brutally honest about what they sell, warts and all. If they think a customer's interests are better served with a product they don't carry, they will send them to someone who does. They are loyal to their customers, and their customers loyal to them. My experience with them for pre- and post-sales service has been exceptional as well, they went above and beyond for me on several occasions and I am happy as a clam to shop there.

[BT Technologies]

Don't forget Takahashi as well...

Originally Posted by william123

The Astro-Physics waiting list -- pardon me, they call it a "notification list" -- goes back to November 1999. I got on it in February 2001. If you have not already gotten on the list, then you have no chance whatsoever of ever buying a new Astro-Physics telescope. That is the reality. So, go buy something else. TEC is a fine alternative.

Bill

[jokun]

I got tired of waiting for a 130 and bought a "used one". It was one of those still in an unopened box (unused). AP collectors have told me it is one of the finest 130 examples they have ever looked through. I am willing to bet any other 9 examples of the 130 will be as close in quality as to be unrecognizably different to the untrained eye. Every time I have talked with Roland or Marj or Anne(?) they have been very helpful. I love my AP 1200 mount. When my Tak NJP went belly up (electronics) and I called Texas Nautical for repair- only to be told it must be sent back to Japan for repair- evidently Tak keeps their electronics proprietary and does not allow the dealers to do much with them. Roland would probably have you up and running in a mater of days instead of a couple of months. I collect Tak, love Tak and will keep loving Tak but I can acknowledge there is nothing wrong with AP or their service.
jeff

[Frank Boyle]

I have spoken with Roland and Marge from AP on several occasions and although I never was able to purchase a scope or mount from them they were always very pleasant and friendly.

I am not one to be super patient so I decided to go a different route but I would not hesitate to deal with AP as they seem to be a superb company.

Frank

[PJ Anway]

AP set up a booth at NEAF last year ( first time I can remember ) and it was nice to talk with Roland. Though I had to smile a bit at the two refractors he had on display when I asked him if they were for sale. :^)

AP does have a very nice selection of accessories that are in stock and I have purchased several items from them. The service and quick delivery was first rate as well as the quality.

[jouster]

Originally Posted by william123

The Astro-Physics waiting list -- pardon me, they call it a "notification list" -- goes back to November 1999. I got on it in February 2001. If you have not already gotten on the list, then you have no chance whatsoever of ever buying a new Astro-Physics telescope. That is the reality....

Bill

No it isn't. AP will market two scopes: a 140mm refractor and a 130mm portable refractor, this summer. Per the yahoo AP user group, the list for at least the former is significantly shorter than the current 160 list. In addition, they will release two other scopes later this year (they were not quite ready for NEAF), about which nothing is known, so no conclusions can be drawn concerning wait times.